Comments on: The Business Case: An Ongoing Discussion http://spacesolarpower.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/the-business-case-an-ongoing-discussion/ a public discussion sponsored by the Space Frontier Foundation Fri, 06 Nov 2009 02:24:42 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Fred333 http://spacesolarpower.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/the-business-case-an-ongoing-discussion/#comment-2123 Fred333 Thu, 06 Dec 2007 19:10:40 +0000 http://spacesolarpower.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/the-business-case-an-ongoing-discussion/#comment-2123 Great article. I really had not read much about the whole turning it over to the private sector, but I understand why. Great article. I really had not read much about the whole turning it over to the private sector, but I understand why.

]]> By: Alienthe http://spacesolarpower.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/the-business-case-an-ongoing-discussion/#comment-1432 Alienthe Sat, 27 Oct 2007 16:49:32 +0000 http://spacesolarpower.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/the-business-case-an-ongoing-discussion/#comment-1432 @Michelle Mause #20 <blockquote cite="Michelle Mause">While the point of this discussion, and this whole area, is FOR Space Based Power - - does anyone have a case AGAINST SBSP ? > I have a story I’ll submit in a few days if anyone expresses interest.</blockquote> My only reservation is that increasing talks on Peak Oil, groundwater depletion, climatic changes would mean that forms of Space Power would by some be seen as the beginning of an <i>hydraulic empire</i> Countries that fear forceful use of such power (probably countries that themselves would not mind wielding large scale destructive powers over others) might object loudly. If the power system is in the hand of someone who gets intoxicated by power might pull an Enron style strategy with rolling blackouts and destruction of other satellites. Even a low power beam might fry satellites (like those of a competitor) since these are not designed to resist microwave warfare. Some fear the downlink power beam as a destructive beam of Biblical proportions. Those of us who are familiar with microwaves know that power setting well below "deep fry" can be dangerous. Microwaves can cause blindness. Apparently this has been tested in the Irak-Iran wars years ago. More sneaking use would be an even lower power level that causes sterility in men, an occupational hazard those in the know are rather aware of when working on microwaves. A hostile use of this would be to raster the beam across an area. Noone would be likely to notice immediately but 9 months hence rampaging unemployed midwives would be the the least of your problems. For good or for evil controlled injection of heat in the form of microwaves might steer hurricanes. This involves a lot of power of corrupting potentials and one should think very carefully about who should be allowed to wield such powers, not only for the real dangers but also for the fear that naturally comes. @Michelle Mause #20
While the point of this discussion, and this whole area, is FOR Space Based Power – - does anyone have a case AGAINST SBSP ?

> I have a story I’ll submit in a few days if anyone expresses interest.

My only reservation is that increasing talks on Peak Oil, groundwater depletion, climatic changes would mean that forms of Space Power would by some be seen as the beginning of an hydraulic empire

Countries that fear forceful use of such power (probably countries that themselves would not mind wielding large scale destructive powers over others) might object loudly.

If the power system is in the hand of someone who gets intoxicated by power might pull an Enron style strategy with rolling blackouts and destruction of other satellites. Even a low power beam might fry satellites (like those of a competitor) since these are not designed to resist microwave warfare.

Some fear the downlink power beam as a destructive beam of Biblical proportions. Those of us who are familiar with microwaves know that power setting well below “deep fry” can be dangerous. Microwaves can cause blindness. Apparently this has been tested in the Irak-Iran wars years ago.

More sneaking use would be an even lower power level that causes sterility in men, an occupational hazard those in the know are rather aware of when working on microwaves. A hostile use of this would be to raster the beam across an area. Noone would be likely to notice immediately but 9 months hence rampaging unemployed midwives would be the the least of your problems.

For good or for evil controlled injection of heat in the form of microwaves might steer hurricanes.

This involves a lot of power of corrupting potentials and one should think very carefully about who should be allowed to wield such powers, not only for the real dangers but also for the fear that naturally comes.

]]> By: Neil Cox http://spacesolarpower.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/the-business-case-an-ongoing-discussion/#comment-1158 Neil Cox Sun, 30 Sep 2007 20:20:24 +0000 http://spacesolarpower.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/the-business-case-an-ongoing-discussion/#comment-1158 More cut, paste and edit: To reduce ground rectenna size means increasing the satellite transmit antenna even more, and that is already over a kilometer in diameter for 2.55 gigahertz. Considerably smaller is practical at up to 300 gigahertz = one millimeter wave length. Another engineering route is to look at non-GEO satellites for this small-scale application. Just as navigation and communications satellites can and have been used in other orbits, so can power. Engineering efficiency is lost simply because most of the time any one satellite is not in line-of-sight, but a small constellation could still be more cost-effective than one, and could provide the same power to multiple locations around the planet. More cut, paste and edit:
To reduce ground rectenna size means increasing the satellite transmit antenna even more, and that is already over a kilometer in diameter for 2.55 gigahertz. Considerably smaller is practical at up to 300 gigahertz = one millimeter wave length.

Another engineering route is to look at non-GEO satellites for this small-scale application. Just as navigation and communications satellites can and have been used in other orbits, so can power. Engineering efficiency is lost simply because most of the time any one satellite is not in line-of-sight, but a small constellation could still be more cost-effective than one, and could provide the same power to multiple locations around the planet.

]]> By: Neil Cox http://spacesolarpower.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/the-business-case-an-ongoing-discussion/#comment-1156 Neil Cox Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:47:43 +0000 http://spacesolarpower.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/the-business-case-an-ongoing-discussion/#comment-1156 The beam optimum intensity to use for the microwave or laser is ABOUT 1 KW per square meter at the rectenna or energy receiving site. Higher intensity is better for emergency and battle field as we likely will not use the beam unless we shrink the mass and area of the energy reciever. Shrinking is much easier using the lasers as they will focus into a narrower beam. Lower beam intensity is better for crowded communities of people you care about, if you can afford the land the energy receiver occupies. Again, if you don't build the energy receiver because you tried to make it too safe, all of us may face a horrible future at the hands of radical extremists and/or see our beach front property flooded most of the time. When you multiply 1000 watts per square meter by a few square kilometers you get several gigawatts. Neil The beam optimum intensity to use for the microwave or laser is ABOUT 1 KW per square meter at the rectenna or energy receiving site. Higher intensity is better for emergency and battle field as we likely will not use the beam unless we shrink the mass and area of the energy reciever. Shrinking is much easier using the lasers as they will focus into a narrower beam.
Lower beam intensity is better for crowded communities of people you care about, if you can afford the land the energy receiver occupies. Again, if you don’t build the energy receiver because you tried to make it too safe, all of us may face a horrible future at the hands of radical extremists and/or see our beach front property flooded most of the time.
When you multiply 1000 watts per square meter by a few square kilometers you get several gigawatts. Neil

]]> By: Edawg http://spacesolarpower.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/the-business-case-an-ongoing-discussion/#comment-1130 Edawg Thu, 27 Sep 2007 23:07:34 +0000 http://spacesolarpower.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/the-business-case-an-ongoing-discussion/#comment-1130 one major problem with closing the business case INSURANCE!!!!!I hate to see the geico rates for anything that involves high explosives one major problem with closing the business case INSURANCE!!!!!I hate to see the geico rates for anything that involves high explosives

]]> By: Michelle Mause http://spacesolarpower.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/the-business-case-an-ongoing-discussion/#comment-1104 Michelle Mause Tue, 25 Sep 2007 17:59:45 +0000 http://spacesolarpower.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/the-business-case-an-ongoing-discussion/#comment-1104 While the point of this discussion, and this whole area, is FOR Space Based Power - - does anyone have a case AGAINST SBSP ? > I have a story I'll submit in a few days if anyone expresses interest. While the point of this discussion, and this whole area, is FOR Space Based Power – – does anyone have a case AGAINST SBSP ?

> I have a story I’ll submit in a few days if anyone expresses interest.

]]> By: David Hewitt http://spacesolarpower.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/the-business-case-an-ongoing-discussion/#comment-1049 David Hewitt Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:02:59 +0000 http://spacesolarpower.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/the-business-case-an-ongoing-discussion/#comment-1049 There may be something to consider in the business case discussion that I have recently been thinking about. First of all, you need to be able to utilize your SSP network in an efficient and profitable manner. The more I think about it, the more I am starting to believe that GEO based SSP is a pipe dream in the near term. I remember some articles about high earth orbiting constellations of smaller SSP platforms than would be required for GEO. If you were to launch a constellation that would orbit in a high altitude/high inclination pattern similar to GPS, you could have a network of small ground stations all around the world. You could have an international co-op that each local substation would be a part of. If you joined the network, all you would need to do is have a ground station that could lock on to beamed power from multiple satellites. Then you could store excess electricity in batteries and capacitors for night time use and distribute it into the power grid of your local municipality. The whole network could be funded by fees payed into the co-op by every user. This may not be an original idea on my part, but I think it is the most logical business case for a near term operation scenario for SSP. There may be something to consider in the business case discussion that I have recently been thinking about. First of all, you need to be able to utilize your SSP network in an efficient and profitable manner. The more I think about it, the more I am starting to believe that GEO based SSP is a pipe dream in the near term. I remember some articles about high earth orbiting constellations of smaller SSP platforms than would be required for GEO. If you were to launch a constellation that would orbit in a high altitude/high inclination pattern similar to GPS, you could have a network of small ground stations all around the world. You could have an international co-op that each local substation would be a part of. If you joined the network, all you would need to do is have a ground station that could lock on to beamed power from multiple satellites. Then you could store excess electricity in batteries and capacitors for night time use and distribute it into the power grid of your local municipality. The whole network could be funded by fees payed into the co-op by every user. This may not be an original idea on my part, but I think it is the most logical business case for a near term operation scenario for SSP.

]]> By: Joe Russo http://spacesolarpower.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/the-business-case-an-ongoing-discussion/#comment-985 Joe Russo Tue, 11 Sep 2007 12:53:28 +0000 http://spacesolarpower.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/the-business-case-an-ongoing-discussion/#comment-985 Hello In case no one has noted the related story about gas and oil pipelines in Mexico City. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296239,00.html "...MEXICO CITY — Mexican gas and oil pipelines were attacked in six places before dawn Monday, causing explosions, fires and gas leaks that forced the evacuation of thousands of people. The blasts reverberated for miles. No direct injuries were reported, although civil defense agencies said two women in their 70s who lived nearby died of heart attacks shortly afterward..." Hello

In case no one has noted the related story about gas and oil pipelines in Mexico City.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296239,00.html

“…MEXICO CITY — Mexican gas and oil pipelines were attacked in six places before dawn Monday, causing explosions, fires and gas leaks that forced the evacuation of thousands of people.
The blasts reverberated for miles. No direct injuries were reported, although civil defense agencies said two women in their 70s who lived nearby died of heart attacks shortly afterward…”

]]> By: Edawg http://spacesolarpower.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/the-business-case-an-ongoing-discussion/#comment-977 Edawg Mon, 10 Sep 2007 18:20:13 +0000 http://spacesolarpower.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/the-business-case-an-ongoing-discussion/#comment-977 shubber is dead on I want a direct connect.To many endless canyons with dark shadows.. ~beep beep shubber is dead on

I want a direct connect.To many endless canyons with dark shadows..

~beep beep

]]> By: shubber http://spacesolarpower.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/the-business-case-an-ongoing-discussion/#comment-958 shubber Fri, 07 Sep 2007 01:58:09 +0000 http://spacesolarpower.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/the-business-case-an-ongoing-discussion/#comment-958 <i>What’s the business case when you assume zero launch, labor and manufacturing costs?</i> Something you'll find in the "fiction" section at Barnes and Noble... What’s the business case when you assume zero launch, labor and manufacturing costs?

Something you’ll find in the “fiction” section at Barnes and Noble…

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